Leading with Heart: Balancing Career and Family with Nicki Hill

Jenny Cole: 1:02

Hello there, lovely listeners, welcome to Positively Leading the Podcast. I'm your host, Jenny Cole, and my business is Positively Beaming, and I'm here today joined by the delightful Nicki Hill. Welcome, Nicki.

Nicki Hill: 1:17

Thank you, it's great to be here.

Jenny Cole: 1:20

Nicki is currently the principal at North Tom Price Primary School. She's a mum to two beautiful girls who are almost adults, and one is flying in to visit her today. She loves the creative side of life and is always trying to follow her heart when it comes to her life and her career. Nicki's girls have horses, so she bit the bullet 18 months ago and bought herself one, but she's yet to ride it, possibly because it's about 3,000 miles away from where you're currently living. That would be one reason. Welcome, Nic.

Nicki Hill: 1:50

Thank you. It is a little bit too hot to bring the horse up just yet, but hopefully that is the plan.

Jenny Cole: 1:57

Oh, fantastic. So, Nicki, why don't you give people a bit of an understanding of your leadership journey, and then we'll talk a little bit more about how you ended up in North Tom Price?

Nicki Hill: 2:07

So my leadership journey started very early in my career. Probably four or five years in. I was encouraged by my deputy at the time to have a go at a curriculum officer position. Then opened up so many different things. So I started my career in the Gold fields and then I started working out of Kalgoorlie District Office and I had the opportunity and pleasure to spend my time with graduate teachers traveling all around the north country of the Gold fields, which was amazing and that opened a whole lot of doors for me when I went back to Perth.

Nicki Hill: 2:41

But then I think I found, when I got back to Perth and I wanted to get to the position, that my sense of leadership changed for a little bit, because I came from being a very big fish in a small pond to coming to Perth and then finding that I was this little fish in this massive big pond. So it took me a little while to find my feet. But then I chose family often over my own leadership aspirations. So although I worked hard and I did amazing things within my schools, I feel I held back a lot because I was so committed to my children and where I was. So I was a deputy then for about 20 years across a range of different schools and then had, as you know, Jenny, that conversation around okay, what's next for me, because I became a little bit stuck in that position for quite a while actually.

Jenny Cole: 3:38

Yes, and we'll get to that bit. But thank you for that. I'm curious. You said you put your family first or you made decisions based around your family. Are you prepared to talk a little bit more about what they might have looked?

Nicki Hill: 3:51

like yeah. So I decided not to go back into district offices and now we call them statewide services and to stay in a school, because you have the pleasure then of having school holidays with your children. I also then ended up in a position at Darlington Primary School up in the hills, which was fabulous because then I was able to take my kids to work with me, which opened up some new challenges, but that was amazing as well, until they then became high school kids. And then now they are grown and I feel like now I'm ready to, because it's so hard being a mum and being a leader in leadership and being expected to be there after school and there at all the meetings and then. But you're also running your kids around to dancing or drama or whatever it is that they're going on.

Nicki Hill: 4:45

So I really did have to think about not just what was possible at the time but what worked for us as a family, and sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. Yeah, it was pretty challenging at times to have kids at my own school, but then, when they became more independent, I felt like I was ready to sort of take things on a little further, because I mean don't get me wrong. I was still doing multiple juggling, all of the things, but I wasn't like the end line person which now I'm stepping into that, and so I'm hearing a number of things.

Jenny Cole: 5:21

One, that you made some choices to have your kids at the same school with you in your local community in the hills, because that just suited a really busy lifestyle best.

Nicki Hill: 5:31

but I also know that you probably put off your leadership aspirations because they still needed you a great deal more than they don't need you quite so much now yeah, yeah, and I think I realised what my own limitations are with having to balance things and what I can actually do and still be able to give to my family, give to work. I think being realistic about that, which sometimes was a little bit bittersweet because I missed out on opportunities, but then at the same time you can't ever get that time back for your kids. So it's always a juggling act.

Jenny Cole: 6:06

Yes and there's so many people have. There's no such thing as balance. It's just doing the right thing at the right time.

Nicki Hill: 6:13

Exactly, and I don't think I ever get any one of them happening all at once. If my career's going really good, then family life can be a bit sucky, and then if that family life's going really well, then I'm dropping the ball in the work life, or what have you, and I think that's just something I've come to terms with over time.

Jenny Cole: 6:39

Interested to dig into some of the work that you did do as a deputy in the two schools that you worked with. Even though you've managed sixes and sevens and upper primary in a couple of schools or in a couple of contexts, your passion is really about early childhood and literacy and leading that space and you've had a whole range of experiences, including the connected curriculum that you really focus on one school. Talk us through early childhood and why you like leading in that area and what are the successes and challenges you've had.

Nicki Hill: 7:09

Well, I think the light went on for me around early childhood. First of all, it came out of an absolute fear, because all of my cracks as a teacher were in upper primary and I was like, oh my gosh, what if they asked me to try and teach a child to read? And also, literacy was something I was passionate about when I was younger and I was good at in school. Then I started to dig a little bit deeper into that when I was in the gold fields and I went to and I cannot remember the name of who was leading it at the time, but it was all around neuroplasticity and how we could, because at the time they believed that children could develop empathy if they hadn't had all these early years experiences. So there was all this new research that came out that well, actually, we can develop that and build that and it's possible to turn that around. So I found that like really intriguing and I think that's probably what started things for me, but also that there is that neurological window, that zero to eight, that we can make the biggest difference. So I feel really passionate about being in school, a difference in that area, because that sets learners up for their lifelong learning, their lifelong learning.

Nicki Hill: 8:23

Not to say that you can't do things with older children not at all but in terms of looking at the neuroscience, then zero to eight is that time. So I find it really critical and I have to say that teachers have always said to me it's so refreshing having an early childhood deputy in the school and I wish that all leaders would make sure they had somebody has that knowledge and skill and the schools that I've worked in where that's been present, we've made the biggest gains as a whole school. Whether that's because it's my passion area or because I actually believe it or because it's evidence-based, I'm not sure. But I know it makes a big difference to early childhood teachers to have an advocate in their space who understands what is going on in that area and how important it is that play is not just something that we throw in at recess to lunchtime and I suppose what you focus on grows, and so if you've got somebody in your school who is focused on early childhood, you're not only supporting the teachers, you're supporting the outcomes for kids.

Jenny Cole: 9:32

What do you focus on in early childhood? So you talked about play, but what else is there that you're growing and developing in an early childhood part of the school?

Nicki Hill: 9:43

Okay. So definitely I think, literacy and core numeracy. But I think numeracy is important, don't get me wrong, but the literacy overrides because that integrates into everything. So if we're not doing, we're not giving the children the opportunities in that space, then we're letting them down, and I don't want to let kids down and I don't want to let families down, and that's what I'm, why I think I'm so passionate about that area. And that's linking back to that whole science of reading brain science, all the latest evidence, although it's, I would argue that that evidence has been there for a very, very long time and I had the pleasure early in my career in the gold fields to work with some speech pathologists and that formed the foundation of my understanding and, to be honest, not a lot of new research has come out of that side of things. So this has been around for a while. It's just good that everyone's now getting on board. So literacy, definitely important.

Nicki Hill: 12:05

And then I think today it's day and age social communication, because kids are stuck on these iPads. The world has changed as we know it. When I was, I remember, early in my deputy career, there was this thing called Facebook. That came about, whereas now it's just like my kids wouldn't even realise that was only just coming out when I was still in my deputy career. That's crazy, but this whole sense of kids need to be on iPads and it's a really sad impact on social communication. And I think look at all that current data that's coming out of the ANDC, looking at what the changes have been. Even in the leafy green areas, not just the lowest Social communication is just going down. I really believe that if the social communication isn't there, then children have learning challenges. I'm no psychologist, I'm no neurologist, but I just, over time, have seen those.

Jenny Cole: 13:05

I think you're absolutely right. If a child doesn't have good oral language again which is what our speech pathologists and our language development folk have been saying for years they don't understand some of the other tasks that are being expected of them when we get to more formal literacy Exactly.

Nicki Hill: 13:23

And I am actually a little bit sad. I whole and solely believe in the science of reading, but I am sad to see children that absolutely we need explicit teaching, but if they don't get a chance to apply that in context, then all we're doing is too little regurgitators instead of actually having children who can apply skills in different settings and contexts. So I'm really passionate that we don't lose that in schools and in all of the. I've done all the training around explicit instruction, direct instruction, you name it, but out of my own experience, if you don't have a balance, then you're not building those other outcomes for kids the resilience, the capacity to communicate into different settings. So yes, you might get higher literacy outcomes like formal literacy outcomes initially, but then what is the payoff or the deficit?

Nicki Hill: 14:22

I guess building on that, because just from what I see and I went recently went back into the classroom before I took the plunge as principal because I really wasn't happy where I was and I was probably a little bit scared to go up, so I went back down and in my experience as well, you can achieve so much with little kids in such a short amount of time with explicit instruction that there's no reason that we have to have this argument about getting rid of play or getting rid of fun experiences, because we can actually have both Absolutely, because with explicit instruction, as you said, they should be making gains quite quickly and there's no fluff in the curriculum, you're not doing a whole lot of time wasting, which means that there should be plenty of opportunities for play, which is so critical for their health, for their language, for their resilience.

Jenny Cole: 15:15

100% with you.

Nicki Hill: 15:17

Yeah, I mean, I just feel saddened when I see kids sitting for long periods of time where it's not healthy for them, if you talk to, like the OTs and other specialists. So, yeah, I think it's an exciting time in education that we're all trying to get on the same page, that it'll be interesting to see where that goes, because we were on the same page once about an Australian curriculum, so it'll be interesting to see where this one goes.

Jenny Cole: 15:44

Exactly, and so you talk about going back into teaching because you got a little bit stuck, and this is where you and I first started having conversations around what do I want to do when I grow up? Do I want to still be a deputy. Do want to be a principal. I'll bugger it. I think I'll just go back into teaching. Do you want to talk us through that stage and where that came from and where you ended up?

Nicki Hill: 16:07

Yeah, well as you say I got really stuck and I was a bit despondent. I was bored. I wasn't enjoying what I was doing because every school I'd go in it was all about change management, it was all about literacy. So one aspect I was bored. But also I got a little bit challenged, I think, by a few difficult situations in the workplace and my own self-esteem Going through things in life, financially, maritally. My resilience was low and with that came this fear of stepping up, although I knew I needed to do something because I was going around in circles. I probably frustrated in no end because I just couldn't. I was like, yeah, I was really stuck.

Nicki Hill: 16:54

So what happened was my contract had ended. I had a temporary contract at a beautiful multicultural school in Dianella and I had just implemented all this new business and stuff and I just said to the boss you know what? I would happily go back into the classroom. You need a pre-primary teacher. So off I went and there were two things driving that. One was fear, but the other was also a little bit of excitement because it was so multicultural, eald that classroom experience. I had three children who spoke English as a first language, children from refugee backgrounds all the way up to very affluent family backgrounds. I'm always in my element when I'm learning and that was what happened to me in that place. And then I was forced out of that because I was told oh, you need to give up your position at Darlington. And I just wasn't ready to give up my permanency. I think it's a construct permanency. I think it's a real like, yes, it's a real thing, but really, if you're unhappy where you are, I don't know if it really is permanency.

Jenny Cole: 18:02

We're told it's important, and so we yeah, it is.

Nicki Hill: 18:04

And probably it's important if you're trying to get a mortgage and also in schools, I think it's like a little bit of a notoriety yeah, oh, you're permanent and I'm not permanent and just that sense of having to deal with change at the end of the year, uncertainty. So I think that's why it's important. But I was forced back, I guess, in some ways, which was awesome, because I knew leadership makes a school and I knew the leadership at Dianella wasn't going to stay that way forever because the principal, who I loved dearly, was there for 10 years and I knew I had a sense that he was ready to make a move. So the time was right for me to go back to Dartbrington and actually face what I wanted to do with my career, and it was pretty clear within a few months that I couldn't just keep ticking over in that space, for two reasons. I had a teaching deputy role, which I would say is the most challenging role you can ever expect of somebody, and I'm so mindful of that now as principal that, yeah, I don't think there's anything harder than being a teaching deputy. Yeah, I agree, just a crazy construct, but that's the way some schools have to run because of budget constraints, darlington being one of them.

Nicki Hill: 19:22

And then I found myself talking about it, but I wasn't ready to make the jump and I spoke to my boss about it and said look, I'm ready to start my journey into being a principal. And I started to write applications, but not send them, yeah, until my financial situation hit the wall, with my partner losing his job in mining because it's so fickle, and we were like, oh no, what do I do? So my back was up against the wall. So it forced me out of my comfort zone to apply for positions instead of just applying to the aspirant principal pool and the aspirant principal program. And why?

Nicki Hill: 20:03

Country financially, great decision, great housing benefits. And I loved my time in the Goldfields. That was such a breeding ground for growth and development and opportunity, and I can already see that that is still alive and well. So now in the Pilbara, which I'd never been north of Kalbarri before coming here, I had no idea what I was heading for, so I flew out before the interview, so I at least had some kind of idea. And so is a millennial town, because, coming from Kambalada, I was quite comfortable with that. But also I didn't have a lot of choice, and still there's hardly any regional positions available, so I don't know what's going on there. Maybe everybody's worked out that it's actually a really great place.

Jenny Cole: 20:48

A great gig, a great gig. Yeah, indeed, out that it's actually a really great place. A great gig, a great gig. Yeah, indeed, we'll come back to your about moving into your current school in a second. I was with you through parts of that journey where you're right, you went round and round and round and round and round in circles and there were times I thought I don't think she's ever going to know what she wants until something forces you to make a decision.

Jenny Cole: 21:10

What I do recognise and it's something that I try to say to people is that the trick is to be happy wherever you are, because you are happy as a teacher and you're happy to be in a particular role and sometimes there's not, that you know. You don't have to always be searching for the next big thing. You know, when your kids are young, you might be happy in whatever role that you choose, but the minute that you don't feel happy, that's when you need to start looking around and thinking now what? Yeah?

Nicki Hill: 21:40

Yeah, and I think had I stayed in the classroom maybe I would have been happy, although now that school's going full direct instruction line, so maybe not, but I would have found another school. I would have found another school and I was happy. Teaching One thing I did fine, really did for me as an older not older, but I'm getting close to 50, and so not old old, but my health. I struggled with all the little coughs and colds and of course it was during COVID. I got so sick so when I went into the part-time teaching role in it, I was sick as a classroom teacher.

Nicki Hill: 22:19

So I think you're right, you have to look at all of the factors, but I tell you I was my happiest in the classroom, no word of lie, that is. If I had a beach younger, I probably would have stayed there, and because I promoted early in my career, I didn't feel like I really got through all that stuff. But also, going back was so good because I got to implement everything that I had learned and, I think, credibility as well. So for anybody who's really thinking about or should I, you know, even if you just do it temporarily, I think for credibility and for really getting a sense of what it's like to be in the classroom, and from both angles, because I said that to my boss at Dianella. I said to him he's like oh there's, you know, there's no harder job than being a teacher. And I said, actually I don't think I agree with you on that, because I think teachers forget and they're really their own boss in their classroom and they come out for little bits and pieces, but as a principal or a deputy, you are under the microscope, you are on show all of the time, 24, seven.

Nicki Hill: 23:26

So I actually, yes, I agree, teachers have to do a lot. There's a lot to do, but I actually think that administrators have had to take on way more since all the devolution of central officers, and so I actually think administrators have it harder. Right, interesting perspective. You've got to be passionate, yeah, whereas I feel it's the other way. And, yeah, there are pros and cons to both jobs. None of them are easy. All of them are rewarding, but I do think people forget what it's like to make those really tough decisions.

Nicki Hill: 24:07

And yeah, you never. Everyone thinks they can do your job better than you can. If you're a classroom teacher and it's a parent telling you how it should be, or whether you're the deputy and it's your team telling you, or whether you're the principal and it's your staff or your MCS telling you how it should be, everybody thinks they can do it better than you can, but they're not dealing with the complexity and the big picture that you are always dealing with as a leader.

Jenny Cole: 24:33

So what advice do you give to aspiring and middle leaders? You've already said that the middle leader gig where you're still teaching is the hardest job, and I would 100% agree with you. But what kind of advice do you give aspirants and new leaders?

Nicki Hill: 24:56

Find yourself a mentor, and I guess also my advice for aspirant leaders is to ask If you have an area that you want to develop in. You've got to ask Because sometimes your boss is just so busy that, although they'd like to know everything that's going on in your head, but just it's not possible. If you don't ask for the project, if you don't ask for the opportunity, you won't get it. And I think also middle leadership, grow the people under you, grow your teachers and grow those relationships.

Nicki Hill: 25:26

But also listen to the namesayers, because although they're really hard to listen to, and sometimes reallyers, because although they're really hard to listen to and sometimes it really hurts because you're doing it, it's a vocation, we're not the business that we're in, and so when somebody's critical, it can be really hard. Or if they're really negative, all the time it's hard. But I think what's really important is that there is a message there and it's in what they're saying. So there's that bit of advice. And then the other bit of advice is to not take it personally, because whatever is going on in that person's life is probably what you're actually dealing with rather than the actual issue at hand.

Nicki Hill: 26:07

Complaining about duty roster. It's probably more of a complaint about how they feel, their values or what's going on in their home life or they didn't get their coffee that morning, or there's some really serious stuff going on for people. I think you've got to see people as people first and because I'm really a believer in not burning bridges that you always want to be trying to work with people and don't avoid giving the hard feedback early, because otherwise I think when you sometimes you have people working with you and they're doing something that either it's against the policy or, if it's against your values or the direction of the team or the school, the longer you leave it, the harder it is to change that. That's something I wish I had learned earlier, because I like to be liked, so I don't like giving hard feedback. The thing is, people are going to be upset with you anyway, even when you're trying to please everyone all the time. So, yeah, give the feedback early if something's not working, because otherwise it becomes a harder conversation down the road. It does.

Jenny Cole: 27:15

And you've wasted good intellectual energy worrying about it, and so have they. Potentially Absolutely yeah, have it early. Be clear in what you're saying, move on.

Nicki Hill: 27:26

Yeah, oh. There's so many things I could say to people, because the young me was so bullet a gate and wanting to get everything done yesterday and I wish I hadn't. I mean, I learnt a lot through that. But it is the conflict pathway. You can get a lot achieved, but I think you can achieve just as much by going just that tiny bit slower and ruffling a few less feathers.

Jenny Cole: 27:51

That would be another bit of advice and so you're finally the ultimate leader in the school. You're now a principal and you've gone into school in the Pilbara and you arrived. When was that fourth term?

Nicki Hill: 28:06

So school had well and truly oh yeah, four weeks in, at the most crazy time of the year, moved house, didn't get a house, had to sit in a Tansy house, spoke with one fork and one glass and it was not pretty. The school was. The school is beautiful, the teachers are committed and passionate and, yeah, I think I picked the jackpot, luckily.

Nicki Hill: 28:29

Fantastic, yeah, so that's really good, but it was definitely baptism by fire going in at that time and I kept sitting back at some moments and thinking, okay, someone's going to do something about that, and then realising, oh, it's me Right. Oh, I didn't realise. Like just being in the limelight all the time, I thought that was bad as a deputy, but that was something that I didn't and I'm still adjusting to. But everyone's looking to me all the time and I think that's also a response to, culturally, how it's been in the school previously as a collaborative leader. So I'm not used to it. I'm waiting for other people to step up and then they're like, no, it's you, you've got to have that photo and you've got to have that. It's better if you say it. I was like, oh, okay. So I'm still getting used to that side of things.

Nicki Hill: 29:18

But I've also reflected on how I will be as a principal, knowing what it's like to be a deputy and knowing what it's like to be a teacher and keeping that in perspective. Tell us about that. There's so many, and I've been a deputy for 20 years. Why didn't anybody show me how to do recruitment processes? And why didn't anyone show me how to do the one-line budget properly? And so that is definitely something, and I am a collaborative leader anyway.

Nicki Hill: 29:48

But I'm a little bit upset by that because I feel like, oh, and maybe that was my own doing, because I never really put myself out there to say I want to be a principal, but then from the feedback I'm getting from other new principals that this is like a thing and I don't think it has to be a thing. It would be nice if principals actually really and I know everyone's busy and there's something to have to do and it's just the principal that does it but I'm really conscious of building a team where anyone would know how to step into my role. That's what happened just before me. There was the deputy and I think she'd only been a deputy for two years or something. She was in the acting principal's position.

Jenny Cole: 30:30

And that's just so unfair. It's just not fair on her at all.

Nicki Hill: 30:34

No, I put myself back in how I was at two years out. Wow, my hat was off to her. She did such a fantastic job but at the same time she was still trying to do her deputy job because that was probably what she was comfortable with, and then was an accidental leader. But I think we need to have those succession plans in place and it gives people more perspective on why those decisions are made as well and opens you up to less criticism, because everybody is included in the conversation. And that's what I've said to my staff going forward. I introduced myself, told them hey, I'm a first-time principal but 20-year deputy, so I've been around, but I'm learning this and we're going to have to learn together and just been listening to them at the moment.

Nicki Hill: 31:25

But I think also on making changes, because they're frustrated, because they've had a lot of turnover of leadership, whereas that's outside of my comfort zone because I don't want to make the changes yet, because I like to sit back and find out what's going on. So we're having a bit of an exploration year. That's outside of my comfort zone because I don't want to make the changes yet, because I like to sit back and find out what's going on. So we're having a bit of an exploration year. That's what we're going to call. 2025 is we're going to try the things they think are going to work, and then we're all. We're going to regroup because we've got a new business plan coming up. But I've said to them at the end of the day, it's got to be what's in the best interest of the kids and that's how I lead. It's got to be about children.

Jenny Cole: 32:05

I'm so excited for you because I know it was horrific starting in the middle of Term 4 and you've got all as a principal. You've got all of those decisions to make in Term 4 about classes and staffing and budgets and really hard, but at least you've got that out of the way. And big note to those people who say I'm not ready to be a leader You're never ready. You can be 20 years as a deputy and still not know stuff, so just leap in there. But you've now at least got to know who's who in the zoo, find out who and get a bit of an idea about how it works so that you can start this year kind of knowing a little bit about the school. You're not faffing around in the dark quite so much.

Nicki Hill: 32:40

Absolutely. So it was really really hard because at that time of year you've got your school board report, you're trying to pull everything together, you've got graduation, end of year concert, everything. So it was challenging but, as you say, it's given me a really good, solid grounding of where the school is at, how people deal with pressure and stress, because that's reporting cycle and end of year. So I learned as I was going but I felt like I could actually offer something to my deputies because I'd walked in their path. So in that way I felt like, oh, I know how to deal with that and I know how to deal with that problem. So to be able to support them through that was really great, because they're early on their deputy career, although I've got another new person coming, so I've just that was another learning curve trying to get a deputy ready for the start of the year. So I've got a really fresh team, but I think we're on. Are we on really fresh team? But I think we're on. Are we on track? I don't know.

Jenny Cole: 33:43

I think we're on track, but it's also a little bit of let's create this as we go, yeah.

Nicki Hill: 33:46

Yes, that's a good opportunity. Yeah, and it's the end of the business plan, so at the end of this year we can take charge of where we're actually going. So the timing for me, as somebody who loves change and developing change in schools, I think it's a really good timing to spend this year just looking at what works, what doesn't. And the biggest thing that made the difference for me was both the principals at the upper two schools came and saw me. One of them emailed me as soon as I got the position, welcoming me. They've been amazing. So I've already set up those support systems Local, community and Lisa at the other school has been there for 10 years so she knows the town, she knows the ins and outs of how to do everything. So that has been an absolute blessing, that level of support, which I think is a country thing.

Jenny Cole: 34:40

I think it is a country thing. It's a little bit sad, yeah, it's like well, you're part of my community, we're all going to succeed together or fail together, and we want to succeed. I think there's none of that competition or that. I mean, I know it's not competition in the city, but there is a kind of professional rivalry sometimes in the city.

Nicki Hill: 34:59

Oh, absolutely. And you get busy because I think when you're in a small community, you're surrounded by it all the time, yes, whereas when you're working in the city, you're driving to work and when you leave work you become this anonymous person. But I can't go down to the shops now without thinking, oh, what am I going to wear? But I can't go down to the shops now without thinking, oh, what am I going to wear. I can't wear my trackies and have dirt on my face from the horse, because I might run into such and such, and I probably will get more comfortable with that once people know me. But at the moment, yeah, I wouldn't want to be caught picking my nose in public or doing something like that, because it would probably be all over the community.

Jenny Cole: 35:35

Because, as you said, you're on show. Like you noticed in fourth term, the limelight is on you. The school is the hub of the community and they're looking to you for modelling of what's appropriate. So, yeah, no nose picking Nikki. No, exactly Just your networks. You've got pretty strong networks because you've been a deputy for a while. Have you had to draw on those networks as you've been going? How have you learnt the things that you didn't know, and have you been using your networks to help you? Oh, absolutely.

Nicki Hill: 36:05

So my previous boss from Darlington, and even in the application process as well and getting help, and they have been so supportive, reading applications, giving me applications of their own. I have been blown away. The other thing that I've been told to do is to get a collegiate principal. So I've applied for that, but there's a hold up because they've got new people coming in, so that will be good. And then locally I've connected with people. Locally I've connected with people.

Nicki Hill: 36:42

But I'm also using my tried and true teacher besties, who are still teachers, who know me and trust my leadership. So when I'm having a hard day, they're the people that I'll send a flicker text to, or what should I do here. So it's not just people in principal's positions. And also I've been blown away by regional office and Silver City because the people in recruitment, in payroll, in finance, have been so supportive, whereas I was a little bit scared to pick up the phone to begin with. But the moment I say to them look, I'm learning, I'm trying, I don't know what I'm doing, they just talk me through it.

Nicki Hill: 37:19

So probably had I known some of that earlier that I wouldn't be so worried about things. But that is so. I've got the support of my family, which has been hard because I left my girls behind and that was a big decision and really challenging because one of them was going to come with me and then she decided not to, so that was a. So it's been a little bit emotional, but I've actually proved to myself that I've built enough resource and strength around me that I can actually deal with that, which has been in itself a big, I guess, positive feedback for myself that I can actually do this, and I very much get in my head all the time about what can I do.

Nicki Hill: 37:59

And yet early in my career I wasn't like that, I just went for it. So, I don't know, something happened middle there. I think there's some of those knots that you get as a leader, and not just in the school environment but in your home environment and what's going on in your life, because you do have to keep all the balls in the air, and so you've got to decide which balls you want to keep in the air. I think that's the key is figure out what is actually important that time and do that, because

Jenny Cole: 38:29

That's exactly that's brilliant advice. You know you can't keep all of them in the air at once.

Jenny Cole: 38:37

You can't be 100% for your family and for your school, or you can't be running 15 projects in your school life and choose which balls you want to keep in the air and trust yourself.

Nicki Hill: 38:46

Absolutely, because I've done something that's a little bit different with leaving my kids and I know I talked this through with you in our coaching that there are other people who have done it, and I was like wow really, in our coaching that there are other people who have done this, and I was like wow really.

Nicki Hill: 39:01

And I've now come across more people who have done this and that's a bit of a social construct that it's okay for men to be FIFO but not for women, and maybe in the mining industry it's a little bit more accepted as more women are coming into that corporate world of the mining industry. But I think, yeah, I've copped a little bit of flack from people saying, oh how can you lose your kids, leave your kids and blah, blah. But I think this is now where I get to see the fruits of my labour, because they are actually stepping up and showing me and it was actually my 16-year-old who was like mum, we've got a relationship, it'll be fine, I'll just be living with that.

Jenny Cole: 39:42

And then you'll be living up there and they have a father who's perfectly capable of ensuring that they're fed and taken care of. Yeah, I'm super proud of your decision because I really don't think five or six years ago you would have even contemplated. I mean, your kids were littler. But you know, all things being equal, I'm not sure that this is where you would have taken this risk. But what I'm hearing is that you're absolutely loving it and learning and stretching yourself and growing and you're in a really great place. So that's brilliant, so happy.

Nicki Hill: 40:10

Thank you. Yeah, well, you had a little bit to do with this process and having somebody and that's why I contacted you is when I'm stuck, that's when I book session with you, and I did that out of my own money, off my own back, because I value it. But I think it would be great if we had more of that within the department and that's paid for by the department, because it's great to go off and do professional learning, but it's the coaching and the pushing you through those I guess the speed bumps that is so important for your development, and I wouldn't have been able to do it without an objective person, but also someone who I knew had my back. But you had different ideas and different advice to say what family or people who know me or work with me have. So, yeah, so thank you for the input. Oh, my pleasure, you have been my journey too.

Jenny Cole: 41:04

Yes, it's been delightful to watch and, as I said, there were times where I thought, oh my God, I'm not sure she's ever going to make a decision. But it's not my journey and I don't have any skin in the game. I'm not your family and I'm not your kids and I'm not your collegiate principal. My only role as a coach is to get you to where you're going, and sometimes that takes a long time and sometimes that happens quickly. But my last guest said you're supposed to be where you are and I think you're supposed to be in North Tom Price and I'm so pleased that you're there. So thank you for spending some time with us this morning, Nicki, and for being so open and honest about your journey. It's been delightful to have you on

Nicki Hill: 41:41

You're welcome.

Nicki Hill: 41:42

Thank you for having me. This in itself was a little bit out of my comfort zone, but I was like, okay, I'm getting used to saying yes to things now.

Jenny Cole: 41:51

Perfect, perfect. Well, you go and pick up your daughter from the airport and thanks again.

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